New Jerusalem, Anyone?

Our tenth article of faith contains the phrase:

that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent;

In compliance with the Lord’s command in Section 52 of the Doctrine and Covenants the elders of the church traveled from Kirtland to Missouri. After they arrived the prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation which is Section 57 which begins thus:

Hearken, O ye elders of my church, saith the Lord your God, who have assembled yourselves together, according to my commandments, in this land, which is the land of Missouri, which is the land which I have appointed and consecrated for the gathering of the saints. Wherefore, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion. And thus saith the Lord your God, if you will receive wisdom here is wisdom. Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse. Wherefore, it is wisdom that the land should be purchased by the saints, and also every tract lying westward, even unto the line running directly between Jew and Gentile; and also every tract bordering by the prairies, anasmuch as my disciples are enabled to buy lands. Behold, this is wisdom, that they may obtain it for an everlasting inheritance.

It seems reletively clear that the Lord has revealed that Zion, the New Jerusalem, will be built in Jackson County, Missouri. Both Talmage and McConkie in their popular books on the Articles of Faith affirm this revelation. McConkie makes clear that this event is to happen before the second coming (A New Witness … p. 586).

I have often wondered about all this. This New Jerusalem being built in Missouri is revelation given to Joseph Smith and is recorded in the D&C. It is part of one of our articles of faith. It has been affirmed by a couple of apostolic heavy-weights in Talmage and McConkie. Yet we don’t talk about it much. Here are a list of a few of my questions:

Do we really believe this (the saints gathering in Missouri) is going to happen, and happen prior to the Millenium?

Do we anticipate a time when saints in North America (if not the western hemisphere) will be called to gather there?

Is it foolishness to entertain ideas of quitting your job, selling your home, and moving to Missouri? Avoid the rush, buy some land, start a business or a farm. If we really believe this, then it is inevitable right? Why not act on it?

I assume there are a reasonable number of saints in Missouri right now. What do they make of all this?

The revelations about this seem fairly clear and specific. They also seem a little odd in a modern context. What national or worldwide events might lead up to this? What will conditions be like when and if such an announcement is made? Is it only a matter of our preparation and righteousness (as McConkie suggests)?

Sorry. I’m full of questions today. I tend to believe all this, but it does seem a bit strange to me. Today we gather to our stakes. Today we are a world-wide church. What think ye?

42 Responses to “New Jerusalem, Anyone?”

  1. 1 Connor Boyack October 30, 2006 at 2:55 pm

    Do we really believe this (the saints gathering in Missouri) is going to happen, and happen prior to the Millenium?

    Yes. Heber C. Kimball, one of the more prophetic of our early church leaders, said:

    “Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes.

    “Then the Prophet Joseph and others will make their appearance and those who have remained faithful will be selected to return to Jackson county, Missouri, and take part in the upbuilding of that beautiful city, the New Jerusalem.”

    I believe that Zion, in the years preceding the second coming, will literally be built and organized in this location.

    Do we anticipate a time when saints in North America (if not the western hemisphere) will be called to gather there?

    Yes. But I think that many cannot or will not come. Partly it will be because of their lack of preparation – not heeding the Prophet’s previous calls to store a year’s supply, pay off debt, etc. It will be inconvenient for many to come to Zion, and hence many will not come. But those who have previously been listening to and obeying the Prophet will have the ability and desire to heed the call and congregate in Zion.

    Is it foolishness to entertain ideas of quitting your job, selling your home, and moving to Missouri? Avoid the rush, buy some land, start a business or a farm. If we really believe this, then it is inevitable right? Why not act on it?

    If the Spirit tells you to do that, go for it! For me, I feel my place is here, for whatever reason. Perhaps I am setting an example for a co-worker? Perhaps I’ll meet my wife here? Perhaps I’ll influence somebody who will join the gospel? We need to be aware of what the Lord wants us to do, rather than our own selfish desire to move to Missouri in anticipation for something that may not occur for a long time.

    This seems to me like the story of the talents. The wicked servant buried his (or, moved to Missouri) when the others invested and developed theirs (or, followed the promptings of the Spirit to live and work where God need him/her most). That example may be a stretch, but I don’t think it’s completely unfounded.

    What national or worldwide events might lead up to this?

    You may be interested in reading a book called As a Thief in the Night by Roger K. Young. I read it a few years back. He discusses the events leading up to the second coming using historical examples, scriptures, GA quotes, prophecies and other things to illustrate what may likely take place. Pretty interesting.

  2. 2 BrianJ October 30, 2006 at 3:36 pm

    My wife grew up in the Independence, MO area, so she has an “insider’s take.” This call to populate New Jerusalem seems to have been heard most loudly by Polynesian saints: about 50% of her stake (Independence Stake) was Polynesian, compared to only a few Polynesians in the neighboring stakes. Apparently, a few individuals felt “a call from the Spirit” to move to Independence from Samoa/Tonga and the population has been growing ever since.

  3. 3 Eric Nielson October 31, 2006 at 7:35 am


    My belief in this is much like yours. It just seems odd to me. I will consider looking for the book you recommend.


    That is really interesting. I wonder why these Polynesian saints felt this so strongly, while I imagine that many saints in similar circumstances have probably given this no thought whatsoever.

  4. 4 Rob Osborn October 31, 2006 at 9:37 am

    It is strange that there appears to be two different “New Jerusalem” cities that will exist. John in Revelations speaks of the City of the Living God (the Father) as “New Jerusalem” which will come down from heaven to earth after the Millenium and that the inhabitants will recieve their inheritance to go no more out being crowned with immortality and eternal life.

    In Mormonism though, we speak of this “New Jerusalem” as being built by the Saints and that it would be established so that God could come down and that this city would be built before the millenium.

    So what is it?

  5. 5 Eric Nielson October 31, 2006 at 10:33 am


    Thanks for your comments.

    In my brief review of Talmage’s Artilces of Faith, there were several Zion’s spoken of. There was a section which talked about the city of Enoch returning, which may be what you are refering to from Revelations. I will have to review more, but I think you are right about it being after the second coming.

    Mostly when we speak of the New Jerusalem in Mormonism we are talking about Jackson County Missouri. This is apparently pre-millenial.

  6. 6 Rob Osborn October 31, 2006 at 2:17 pm


    It got to really bothering me on what, when & where this New Jerusalem is that I did a little research and it seems vaguely apparent that There are literally 2 times for this New Jerusalem- one before and one after the millenium. One will have a/some temple in it and the latter will not. The second Jerusalem which is after the millenium will be called the Holy Jerusalem or the Holy city of God. From what I gather from Ether 13:8-10, the first New Jerusalem (Missouri holy city)will be like the Jerusalem of old (the one from where Lehi came)and will remain until the end of the earth and then cometh the New Jerusalem (Celestial Kingdom) out of Heaven as a bride for the lamb and there is where the righteous will dwell forever more with God and Christ to never go out more.

    Man this is confusing stuff……kind of what the new and everlating covenant is, eh eh!

  7. 7 Eric Nielson October 31, 2006 at 4:02 pm


    I agree. I’m beginning to see why we don’t talk much about it.

  8. 8 J. Stapley October 31, 2006 at 4:46 pm

    Back at the turn of the century, President Snow would often make the promise that if the saints would pay a full tithe that it would be less than 20 years before they redeemed Zion in Missouri. Well, we are at about the same rate of tithing being paid then as now.

    The thing is that Zion is not where, but what. How could we expect to go and build Zion if we don’t have the capacity for it where we are? Are there poor among us? Are we filled with Charity?

    I spent my adolescence in the Kansas City area. There were a fut nutty “gatherers,” but there were also some very sincere folk who felt like they needed to be there.

    The saddest part is that the literal Zion has been absconded by popular Mormon eschatologies that aren’t particularly based in the revelations or the scriptures.

  9. 10 cadams November 1, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    I think it’s helpful to review Pres. Benson’s summary of Second Coming events in the Gospel Classics article in the Dec. 2001 Ensign. He mentioned there being 3 main events that together constitute the Second Coming: 1) the gathering of high priests in Adam-ondi-Ahman, and the Lord’s visiting the temple in the New Jerusalem; 2) Jesus landing his foot on the Mt. of Olives and saving the Jewish nation from Armageddon; and 3) Christ meeting the saints in the air while the earth is cleansed and given its millennial glory.

    We don’t need to worry about everyone going to Missouri, only a few will go there. We’ll all be busy doing the work here, there or somewhere else.

  10. 11 Eric Nielson November 1, 2006 at 1:34 pm


    Thanks for your comment. So if I understand right, you may think that the whole ‘New Jerusalem’ is over-hyped and not a big deal?

  11. 12 m&m November 1, 2006 at 8:35 pm

    I would tend to agree with cadams. The location of the New Jerusalem temple might be in Missouri, but I don’t believe we will all necessarily physically be there. (That just doesn’t make sense to me.) My understanding is that the physical gathering will be of the high priests as cadams said.

    Also, if the Lord comes as a thief in the night, even for us, wouldn’t it be more than obvious if we were suddenly told to go to Missouri?

  12. 13 Eric Nielson November 2, 2006 at 7:43 am


    Thanks for your comment. Perhaps now might be the time for a bit of a confession. I am sometimes tempted to think thus:

    1 – Jackson County was intended to be the gathering place for the saints.

    2 – Because of wickedness of the saints, and perhaps the citizens of Missouri at the time, this did not come to pass.

    3 – Salt Lake served as the gathering place – tops of the mountains …

    4 – We now should gather to our stakes.

    5 – Heavenly Father didn’t feel like giving a retraction.

    Now, I don’t really believe the above, but I am tempted to consider it. I wonder if Missouri lost their chance to host the Mormons.

  13. 14 m&m November 3, 2006 at 10:57 am

    If that is the case, then do you not think that there will be a temple in Missouri that will serve as one of the “Jerusalem” temples? I don’t know that I have an answer for that. I always assumed there would be, but maybe things changed. I tend to think that the Lord always knew we would come here. Even Joseph has been said to have talked of the people gathering in the West. But it’s hard to know what to do with the Zion scriptures and the fact that the saints really weren’t ready for some of what the Lord had given. So, did the Lord give His directions for them or for us? Do we look to what He said as only for their sake, or did He know all along that the New Jerusalem wasn’t yet to be, and gave the instructions so they would be part of our canon, helping us know what is to come, when He knows it will come? Hmmmmmmm………

  14. 16 J. Stapley November 3, 2006 at 11:48 am

    Brigham Young said he received a Revelation while in MO the first time that the Saints would come to Jackson Co. from the west. He believed that the saints would come and recolonize it and the Saints would move. Like I mentioned above, Pres. Snow sure did, just as all the prophets between them.

    As has been mentioned here, the concept of Zion has largely been spiritualized away.

  15. 17 Connor Boyack November 3, 2006 at 12:11 pm

    I agree that Zion has been “spiritualized” in light of the Saints’ persecution and eviction, but I do believe that the gathering to Zion in Missouri will be literal. It may not be all of us, but I do believe it will happen.

    Also of note is this related Ensign article.

  16. 18 Eric Nielson November 3, 2006 at 1:37 pm


    This is a nice link, and pertains very well. Thank you.


    The old prophecies and statements by the old leaders is part of what makes this such an interesting, and for me vague, topic. How to feel about this will ultimately rest on future revelation. With your interest and knowledge of church history, I would like to read a future post from you on this. If you take requests.

  17. 19 J. Stapley November 3, 2006 at 2:03 pm


    I have actually toyed a bit with the idea. The drawbacks are that it is very complex. Is there any reason to take it out of the Article of Faith before we take out the second coming? I think that the challenge for Mormon’s has been that since the beginning, they have believed that the second coming was going to arrive in their lifetimes and often within x years. When you put something like the gathering of Zion in Jackson County that doesn’t seem to be happening, they rationalize their way out of in preference of an eminent coming of Christ. Well, generations of Saints have been wrong and they die without the Millennium. Odds are that it will be the same for us.

  18. 20 Connor Boyack November 3, 2006 at 3:52 pm

    Odds are that it will be the same for us.

    Speak for yourself! 🙂

  19. 21 Dewey olsen November 4, 2006 at 3:50 am

    hey all

    The best place to learn about the new Jerulum is reading Isaiah. The best commentary money can buy is by Avraham Gileadi and cost $40 + $5 shipping. it is 30 hours of verse by verse commentary on two CDs in a MP3 format. You can play it on any computer or MP3 player. see

    in short

    Isiiah explains that america will have a economic clospe where the stock market will fall just like 1929. Most people on the last days list think this will happen in oct of 2008. Accourding to Joshp smith there will be a civial war starting in chacigo, which will spread across the usa. There will be no law and order, only in the rockys. kind of like how new orlands was when there was no food. missionarys will be sent out to gather people to the rocky mountains for peice and safty. The saints at that time will unhold the consitution. The lord will raise up a servant who will lead the people into the winderness like moses did. At this time amermica will be attached both one the CA side and the East side.

    at this time 90% of the world people are killed, by war by the antichrist. only the rightous 9% will be protected indirectly. The 1% which is the holy seed will be gathered by the 144,000 to zion.

    Faithfull sons like hemaun army will over come the attacking armys.
    this will be done by faithful white and laminiate people. The us amry will have given up, and it will take this servant and the faithful sons to cause the power of god to fight back the invading armay.

    the coming of the savior among these people will be so natural that only a few people will know the savior will have come. This is not his coming in golry.

    The savor will lead a group and also the 144,000 each will lead people back to mousir zion in groups of 300-600 each. With one of the 144,000 in frount and in back. These people will be lead like moses and they will walk thur the fire, the oceans , the armys ect with the cloud of glory protecting them by night and a fire in the day. when they get to the center place zion, the glory that was upon each group will then be added upon the temple. so as more and more people gather, zion will put on its glory and streangth till the whole would will see its glory. The people who come to zion will have their calling and ection sure.

    you have got to get Avraham Gileadis commentary on Isiiah. The best that any LDS author has yet to bring forth. over 30 hours. Hugh b Nibley said that Avraham is the most quilified peoson to teach Isiaih he knows of.

    It is an amazing great work and wonder….


  20. 22 Eric Nielson November 4, 2006 at 7:37 am

    I have not heard of this commentary before. Perhaps I will look into it. Thanks for your comments and the link.

  21. 23 J. Stapley November 4, 2006 at 9:34 am

    Be careful. Those interpretations are just that.

    While it wasn’t these exact interpretations, Gileadi ultimately faced some church action because of his Isaiah exegesis. That is not to disparage him, but we have to draw the line between interpretation and God’s truth.

  22. 24 Sally Gilbert November 4, 2006 at 11:25 am

    I agree with Dewey, Isaiah was written for our day and only understood by those who would put out the extra effort to ask the Lord what Isaiah was REALLY saying. With the spirit you will begin to see how plain and straight forward Isaiah really is. I feel that Avraham has done a superb job with his explainations. I believe that the righteous are fleeing here to the Mountains, as a place of refuge from the storms. Good Christians from many denominations are coming by the spirit of the Lord. I would not invest a lot of time in trying to criticize the brethern, until we are Gods and have the ability to do that. I can see flaws in all people, but I raised my right hand to the square and took an oath that I would support the annointed prophet of God and that is what I am going to do. How can we ever be a Zion people if we can not follow some simple basic obedience instructions. Let’s just do our part and let the Lord do His.

    My understanding is that the righteous will flee here to the Rockies for refuge. Going into the Wilderness (out of Babylon) where we can be free from all powers under heaven, is a good idea. Especially when the Lord says “Come out of Babylon and don’t look back” and when He says “Those who remain in Babylon will be destroyed with the wicked.” Rev. 12 tells us that the Woman will flee into the Wilderness carried by “the 2 strong wings of an Eagle”. and she will be protected by the Lord for 3 and a half years. Daniel gives us 2 periods of three and a half years (which could be the 7 years of desolation) President Hinkley just told us to think seriously about those 7 years of pleanty and 7 years of famine. If all that is correct then we could see a very good time line which measures up on several additional areas, that I won’t go into at this time but that should be food for thought. After that period of cleansing I have always understood that the Brethern would by Priesthood calling select those to go to Jackson County to build the temple being led by Joseph and Hyrum. Remember that area will be swept clean with not so much as a yellow dog to wag his tail. I don’t want to be there at that time. Avraham explains that the terms Zion and Jerusalem and Mt. Zion etc. are often used interchangably. One needs to listen to the spirit very much to begin to get the picture. I don’t know all of the answers but I am searching every day and the picture is becoming more clear all the time. I thank all of you for your insight, for I need all the wisdom that I can get.

  23. 25 m&m November 4, 2006 at 3:27 pm

    But our leaders are not telling people to gather to the Rockies; they are telling people that the place to gather is their own country. By so doing, they are fleeing Babylon. We can each flee the evils of the world by coming to Christ through covenants and honoring those covenants. We don’t have to be a specific geographical location right now to do that.

  24. 26 Dewey olsen November 4, 2006 at 6:17 pm

    hey all

    our leaders are under the laws of inagation, and it is to politilcy incorrect now to say that we will soon experace civel war, or that the usa ecooney will soon be like 1929.

    but in 1999 or 2000 it was said 7 years of pulanty and 7 years of want. (watch what we do with Iran… Things will get bad real fast…

    Every home will be worth 20% of its current vaule, Jobs will be hard to come by, as we go to war with Iran in may-jun 2007, and the oil supplys are hit, then war will rage thur out the whole world. The stock market goes south in oct 2008. The up in coming us civil war will break the country ( just like new orlands, but all over the citys of america), then russia and china will see america as weak, and will make their move.

    The leaders have said….

    They have said to get out of debt, and have food storage. Now days in some states it is ileggal to have food storage.

    I always like the comment, would you wreather sell you house now and buy a house in the rockys ($130,000 will buy a nice new home in my naberhood), or in 5 years come on foot with a hand cart, of your stuff and leave in a tent? Utah winters are cold.

    There are many visions of the valleys like mati being feild up with tents, from good people that just want to live in peice, when the time comes that if you do not want to kill or be killed you will flee to the west.

    It is not up to the leader of the church, to tell you every thing.. where to live ect, it is up to you to get revealtion where you should be, and how to prepare. There will always be safe places all over america, but it is clear from the many prophotices of the early breathern that the rockys will be a safe haven for the 7 years of tribuation.

    Of course after the 144,000 will lead people from all parts of the world to the new Jerusulm and will not have to worry about being law abiding and politicly correct like our current leaders must consider every thing they say….

    mousri has like 500 silos of missles, and will be sewpt clean by the russion missals and nuclar bombs, YOu will need the one like unto moses with the power of god to cause the land to be ok to live in.

    So It will take a strength out arm, the power of God before the new creation, and building of zion can happen. The clould of glory will be needed just to cross the planes safey.

    So if the Holy Ghost says move to utah or some where eles, I would do it… or get out of Debt … i would do it.

    we have ….


  25. 27 J. Stapley November 4, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    It was actually in 1998, dude. That would put us smack dab in the middle of the famine. No offense, but you are sounding a bit loopy.

  26. 28 J. Stapley November 4, 2006 at 6:29 pm

    I also like this quote from the talk:

    “Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order.”

  27. 29 Eric Nielson November 4, 2006 at 8:03 pm

    He he he.

    What have I done?


  28. 30 Dewey olsen November 5, 2006 at 1:30 am

    hey all

    some may wonder why some of the last days group think that the next 7 years may be years of want.

    Good years Years of want

    1998-2006 7 yrs 2007 -2014

    Isiaih is very clear that america will be judged, and the people will be swept off this land, just like the jaradites, and nepites.

    this will prepare america to then become zion, and the bring forth of millions of laminates and 10 tribe people to inherate zion and this land. Yes at some later date the 10 tribes will go back to old jueslum.

    As many know the laminates will play a great role in building the new jersulam, a much biger role than us white folk.

    Their will be so many men lost in war, that in that day that zion is again restored 7 women will take 1 man and say “Mary me, I will support myself, but let me be a mother in zion”

    As per confernace talk their are now many women preparing to support their self, by going to college and being rightous. any way I am getting side tracked.

    any way, their are many revelations which or on the web that talk about this. One of my favorite is an LDS guy from slc, utah.

    We are all watching George Bush, and find it very interesting that a (fictional ) movie was just came out about his death in 2007-2008
    because a patriarch give a simuar phrophice. suggested that George Bush would be killed in office, on his last year.

    Patriarch Wolfgram, revied his daughter from death, and that is one of the resons many tangan people love him.

    Patriarch Wolfgram’s Dream of the Cleansing of America

    Iohani Wolfgram

    A dream that he had in 1989 seeing the future of America as told to
    a close friend.

    Many of you are familiar with the great Tongan Patriarch Iohani
    (spelling?) who died recently. On a recent trip I talked to someone
    who was
    a close friend of Brother Wolfgrams and who recounted to me an
    that he had had around 1989. It was a dream of the cleansing of
    Here are a few salient points that he mentioned:

    * The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the
    last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become

    * There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the

    * Many in the Church will become unrighteous and apostatize

    * There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that
    affect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.

    * Hundreds of millions of foreign troops will invade America.

    * The main foreign force in the Utah area will be Chinese or Chinese
    looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.

    * Great upheavals all over. In the Wasatch front area a tremendous
    earthquake will occur. The mountains and the valleys will be

    * The righteous will be spared while the unrighteous will be
    cleansed from
    the land by earthquake, flood, and plague.

    * The rocky mountain area will then become a sacred, fruitful place
    the righteous will gather.

    end of wolfgram

    CURRENT PRESIDENT BUSH second term began

    Jan. 2005 2nd term starts.

    Jan. 2006 1st Year in office completed.

    Jan. 2007 2nd Year in Office completed.

    Jan. 2008 3rd Year in Office completed.

    Jan. 2009 4th year and end of 2nd term presidency.

    their are many others that say simual things. So that is why I thing it is time to get our houses in order…..

    Rejoce Zion will be redeemed.
    And many will live to see it.
    Wow what a great time to be alive….


  29. 32 m&m November 6, 2006 at 12:05 am

    Thought I would throw this into the mix, from Elder Hales’ last talk (just listened to it again tonite).

    “Despite all the turmoil in the world, when the Savior comes to His temple, as He did in the Book of Mormon, those who are true and faithful will be there.”


  30. 33 Eric Nielson November 6, 2006 at 7:37 am


    I am not familiar with the Tongan Patriarch Wolfgram. It would seem a bit odd to me that he would receive such revelations, and odder yet for him to make them known. He should know better than that, it is not his place. I might recommend that you see how his predictions go over the next few years.

    I am also not familiar with ‘an lds guy from slc, ut’. Unless you are talking about President Hinkley.

    There is a lot of strange stuff out there, best stick to the scriptures and our church leaders.

  31. 34 Eric Nielson November 6, 2006 at 7:38 am


    Interesting quote. I hope we can all be there when it happens.

  32. 35 dewey olsen November 6, 2006 at 4:05 pm


    I am totally in a diffent place oon receiving revealation. I have received revelation about thinks to happen, and they have happed. I have no problem in telling my love one and freinds. If I was not receiving revelation I would wonder about my testimony, because when I am close to the lord, that has been my experiance.

    The kool thing that I have found is that when you hear something, you can ask the Lord yourself, and get a feeling of the thing, with out the need to run every thing by the prophet.

    I am not an IRON ROD GUY, more of a Lahoia guy. But the lord blesses both kinds of people. I LOOK FOR TRUTH IN AND OUT OF THE CHURCH.

    here is a post today from a freind of mine, from another list. I agree with his idea that If you do not have the gift of prophecy, some people dismiss it, and can become envey of it. It has always been in my life since my 20’s and it is a inportant gift, which I love to share with loving people.

    see below (start of his post)

    Numbers 11

    26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

    27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
    28 And aJoshua the son of bNun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
    29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD’s people were aprophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

    I believe that it is envy that pulls down those among us with gifts, especially those in authority (such as was Joshua) who have not these gifts- how it must eat at them, and so they tare them down with emnity. The wicked priests of King Noahs court must have felt very indignant (to say the least) that a man not of learning would dare prophecy in front of them. The had the law and the prophets (dead prophets) and needed no gifts of prophecy any more- burn the Abinadis, they are all mad men caught in dilusion.


    end of freinds post (today on different list)

    What’s the definition of a prophet? Well according to the dictionary…

    “a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.”

    The Bible dictionary…

    “The work of a Hebrew prophet was to act as God’s messenger and make known God’s will. The message was usually prefaced with the words “Thus saith Jehovah…”

    This next part is interesting…

    “In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost.”

    I think it’s interesting that it doesn’t mention anything about authority. Was Samuel the Lamanite a prophet with “authority”? Just some food for thought.


    jUST TO KEEP ON TOPIC ON NEW JUSULUM, BOTH MY PARENTS pateritical blessing says that they will accire great wealth, which will be used to build up the New Jusulam. They now have great wealth and are around 75 yrs old.

    About 7 years a ago I recived a revelation that my sister and Mother would go back to Jackson mussiori, with the davidic servant ( one like unto mose), and use their wealth for zion.

    I would agree that the savior will come to his temple (body) some of the faithful will know it, and be with him. I am not talking about his comeing in glory.

    Now why would I tell you these personal revelations? Because I belive that there could be good people, who will want to be there, and are watching for the signs of his coming. I have faith that there are loving people who would find these things interesting and will ask god for their own revealtion….

    What a time to Live
    in that day
    The day of the Lord
    ( dont ask man… ask god !!!)


  33. 36 Wade November 7, 2006 at 3:15 pm

    This has GOT to be a joke! Ryan, stop messing around and get back to work!

  34. 37 Ryan November 17, 2006 at 10:39 am

    wowie wow wow.

    That was totally not me and I can’t believe I wasn’t paying closer attention to this commentary until now.. This whole thing should go straight into the BoJ hall of fame.. so classic.

  35. 38 kalisi February 16, 2008 at 8:31 am

    I’m polynesian, living in slc, ut. I brought up this question last Sunday in church. In 2 Nehpi 1:6 it says at the end of the verse “that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.” and now the leaders are telling people that the place to gather is their own country, by so doing they are fleeing Babylon when they decide to settle in the Rockies.
    None of the answers Sunday was satisfying for me till I found the quote in this web. that “by coming to Christ through covenants and honoring those covernants, we don’t have to be specific geographical location right now to do that.”
    A few general authories made this comment. Do you know who they were?

  36. 39 Eric Nielson February 17, 2008 at 4:40 pm


    Thanks for you comment. A search at would probably bring up a list of talks on the subject.

  37. 40 kmerrell March 21, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Iohani Wolfgramm was an extraordinary human being. You can read or download his life story at:

    To those that doubt anything not coming out of Salt Lake, ponder on Acts 2:17: “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.”

    Many folks have heard of Sarah Menet’s vision of the Last Days received when she had a near death experience:

    In a similar vein, many folks have heard of Gayle Smith’s vision of the Last Days:

    Back to the original question about the New Jerusalem—a number of dreams and visions describe a massive earthquake splitting the US in two down the Mississippi with the New Jerusalem eventually being built on the west bank in Jackson County. The site is described being completely stripped of buildings, vegetation, humans and animals for as far as the eye could see. Gathering in Jackson County right now may be a bit premature!

    For a radically different take on events of the Last Days check out Anthony Larson’s research:,_ancient_history_and_the_restored_gospel_002.htm

  38. 41 Jeremiah April 8, 2017 at 9:56 pm

    The New Jerusalem will be in Colorado. The one mighty and strong was born in 1963.
    He shall build the Temple of God… this is not what you think!

    Zechariah chapter 3
    Doctrine and Covenants 48:64-65
    Revelations 11
    Isaiah 2:2

    The Salt Lake Temple is Not the Temple in the mountains.

    If you are a True Saint of God and His Kingdom
    Then feel free to contact me!

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